Outsourcing vs Product in Ukraine? Why i'm always feel anger whis this topic?


My country is an outsourcing country by all meanings. We exported/exporting coal(war on that territory), we selling seeds, we selling tomatoes, we selling steel preparation components.

Same with coding sector - traditionally - our country “freelancing” for the last 20-15 years. We have a good STEM education, but rather than create products - we sell man-hours. CEO of Microsoft Ukraine naming outsourcing similar to slavery.

But we also have “poor gene”. It was also part of our history. A lot of people that were richer - 100 years ago was killed/repressed/moved out at Siberia/go to jail/run away. And it’s part of our folklore as well. we have a lot of sayings like - “Slower but steady”.

Want to provoke a discussion, so more notes later

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Watching this thread. Same thing happening in Vietnam. In Vietnamese, it’s called “chảy máu chất xám”, literally translated to bleeding of intelligence. It’s a national calamity. And me being a born-and-raised Vietnamese but living and working and paying tax to the US doesn’t exactly add lots of credibility to the discussion.

My mom works for a textile company and all of the clothings are exported to EU and US regions.

However, the startup/tech scene is really booming in Vietnam. There’s a huge movement of people oversees starting businesses there because there’s so much potential in the region, with Vietnam being so centrally located in Southeast Asia and with population being young & increasingly more educated. I wonder, @arthur.tkachenko, how’s startup scene in Ukraine?


I hate that developed companies treat developing countries as a source for cheap labor. It is very much like slavery in my view.

The problem isn’t easy to solve. Developing countries will gladly “sell man-hours” because the revenue is desperately needed. Not being able to walk away from the negotiation table puts anyone from a developing country in a losing position which results in exploitation.

On top of that, it is hard to break the cycle because the type of work associated with these freelance gigs doesn’t really allow people to develop skills needed to start and grow a business. It’s a never-ending cycle of grunt work.

@arthur.tkachenko, I’d love to hear your thoughts on how to break the cycle and help countries like Ukraine develop healthy startup communities. I’ve got a few ideas to contribute but I’d like to think about the problem a bit more. My first thought is to start by encouraging more commissioned work rather than contract work. I’d like to write a piece the distinction and why I think that would help.


Totally agree with you!


As this is a big topic - let’s split it into small chunks. Can you tell me - what exact is wrong from your point of view? @gln


Let me put it here as example. When I see ads like this - I understand it: “So Danish investor find someone with tech experience, make him(because it’s hard to woman obtain this position in Ukraine) an CTO(but can fire and also we not sure about equity) and using connections - getting projects at EU, giving them to our developers, paying salary, maybe low taxes(low low low low) keeping margin”

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another example. looks like people that selling that services start to realize that something is wrong and it’s hard to sell outsourcing. so they selling outstaffing

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